Thursday
Apr012010
A Response to the Classical Angler
Thursday, April 1, 2010 at 12:03AM 
The Chicago Troutbum's William Parke has posted a respone to The Classical Angler's, The Sport of Gravel Raping which we fired up a link to last week.
Talk amongst yourselves.
tagged fly fishing tactics, the chicago troutbum in Method, Other Sites
fly fishing tactics, the chicago troutbum in Method, Other Sites
Reader Comments (21)
its an article that speaks volumes of ppl we see on the rivers every day! I dont blame him I'am not smart enough to know the 50 dollar words he used, but I applaud him for his article.
No one else wants to speak about it, and some of us do! I know I do and speak my mind on my blog on the rivers and creeks!
...birds build "nests"
Jus sayin
That's awesome. I'd say most redd rapers don't know the harm they are causing. Another proportion doesn't even know how to recognise redds or spawners. Posting signs like this at common spawning areas would help a bunch. The trailer trash redd rapers will do their damage anyway, but signs could help keep honest people honest.
The Chum guys just used the sign as a graphic for our post. If you look closely it is for the Farmington River in CT, a beautiful trout stream with natural reproduction. We have no such signs on the Milwaukee River, which is the subject of our post and The Classical Angler's Post. Signs like these could be useful on many rivers and streams throughout the country in a diverse array of fisheries. The Moldy Chum Blog ran a quick story on a west coast salmon conservation non-profit that created yellow "caution" tape with a salmon silhouette on it a few months back. Such measures would be even more useful in so-called destination fisheries where out of town anglers who don't know where spawning sites are could be alerted.
I think the original author could have put it better but it really boils down to this....
I've heard these arguments over the years. "Most of the fish in the Great Lakes don't spawn" or "They're not real fish like West Coast Steelhead" etc.... What it really boils down to is a lack of sportsmanship.
Sure youre not hurting the environment by fishing gravel in the tribs, BUT youre making the sport and sportsmen look bad.
It just goes to show that working at an Orvis shop (especially in Chicago) doesn't preclude you from being an a dumb ass. Intentionally fishing gravel is for newbies and fags. You might as well be trolling for blowjobs at Estabrook Park.
This is what I posted on the website referenced above....
Fuck you you fucking fucker, fuck off and go fuck yourself.
If you got past that please pay attention. It's obvious to me as a Steelheader that you've never witnessed the behavior that was commented on. If you had you would shudder at the avarice, and the greed displayed. Simply because an animal is not naturally occurring is no excuse to subject it to the torment and disrespect that gravel raping entails. ( RAPING, RAVISHING, VIOLENT) If you had ever witnessed it yourself I cannot believe that AS A SPORTSMAN you would or could ever condone this kind of selfish, unsportsmanlike conduct. You fucking asshole.
sincerely
Ken Campbell
As the original culprit (author) of the gravel-fishing piece, I seem to have underestimated how divisive this issue is. To me, the issue is less about the local resource than a concept of fair-chase and sportsmanship. I understand that the river in question, my home river, has little reproduction, and that most all of the steelhead are hatchery plants. For what it is worth, I have found some natural reproducing steelhead in the river’s tributaries. We also do get wild strays from other G.L. states.
I fish extensively in the western states for steelhead as well, and recognize that hatchery plants are a scourge, and a poor replacement or compensation for a wilderness and wild fish ruined by man.
However, whether a fish is wild, native, hatchery, a kelt, a boot, or a chrome bright bumper, in my opinion, should not change our approach as sportspersons. Sight-fishing to fish on gravel attempting to procreate, whether they succeed or not, is, in my opinion, not adhering to the core ethics of fly-fishing: restraint and fair chase.
Peace.
As Erik has mentioned above, there is some natural reproduction in the Milwaukee River for fish that find their way far enough upstream to suitable tribs(I have caught beautiful par-marked smolts with all their fins intact) . Fair chase is the name of the game here and fools that go after fish on gravels just don't get it. The Chicago Troutbum! what a joke! these guys only fish in Wisco or Michigan! More garbage from the Chicago(whorvis) crowd.
I posted something to this effect on Troutbums blog (as yet to be published)
At which point do you draw a line and say it is unethical to fish Redds for actively Spawning Fish?
If the fish are natives, 95% hatchery, 5% wild and naturally reproducing (Many WA and OR rivers)
Would you still rape the gravel?
If the fish are non-native but 80% wild naturally reproducing, and 20% hatchery (Some Lake Superior Tribs). Would you continue to rape the gravel?
How about a river that sustains a 20% natural reproduction rate, but has to be boosted with hatchery fish whether they are native or not? (MI, OR, CA, WA rivers)
Would you still want to rape the gravel?
Each person can create their own line of acceptability by changing any of those variables, and percentages. Evenutualy coming to a point where “It’s OK to fish the redds.” because a fish is non-native to the river, or because it is not “Wild”, etc., etc.
For many years our U.S. hatchery programs didn’t take into consideration that fish native to rivers have genetic variations that others of the same species, but a different river do not. You may have had a hatchery in OR rearing a CA strain of Steelhead for placement into an OR river. That fish is non-native to that river or stream and it’s not wild. Does that make it OK to fish the Redds in that water?
To state that it’s OK to fish for bedding fish because they don’t really belong there, and it’s a “put and take” fishery, and they don’t naturally reproduce, is just ignorant and stupid.
Neither will or I fish for bedding fish. I agree that such a tactic is unsporting. We simply wanted to highlight that there is a wide spectrum of fishing styles in our specific fishery. Neither of us advocate, condone or promote such behavior. We care a great deal about the environment and our fishery. I am wrapping up grad work at northwestern and plan to spend my life working on these issues. Simply put, we wanted to offer an alternative to mr helms opinions. Neither of us should be taken as gospel. No blogger, myself included should publish with impunity. See you all on the river. We wanted to start a dialogue.
Please take your uppity, Chicago dialogue elsewhere, and why is everyone a "troutbum" now. You'd rather be at a Starbucks plucking away on your keyboard then on a river, admit it.
David,
Thank you for your response. Perhaps the dialogue has had some positive effect. I do admit that some of what I said may have been a bit sharp, especially for my writing. I expect that often passion in our sport can drive us. Sometime, when the smoke settles, lets have a beer over this.
Erik
Beer is on me Erik. We have more in common than not. Looking forward.
I believe this issue is directly related to uneducated anglers. Stop attacking each other and educate them!! I admit getting excited the first time I saw fish on gravel, and casting to them, but only because I was unaware of what was happening. Of course, as time went on and I continued to do my research and improve as an angler I learned about what these fish were doing in the shallows. Now, I know that it's not only unethical, but also not fun. If the people do understand and still choose to fish gravel, they are missing out on what steelheading really is, and it's their loss.
It's fun to stand back and watch big fish hanging around a small stream (trib) and watch their activity, but to fish that section is just not right. Steelhead or browns, bows, ect... if you know where and when they spawn it's best to sit back and watch a moment than fish it. Also informing other anglers will help them become better informed and have better tactics, and give them something to think about.
Some spots have information about turning in poachers and my girlfriend and I gave them a call when we saw a guy putting a native steelhead into his car. So we gave them a call and I hope he got what he deserved!
Signs have helped with the Crooked River a bit, when Central Oregon Fly Fisherman put them up on the river to inform others where the fish spawn. Plus, it's always nice to see a State Game Officer out on the rivers here.
I couldn't agree more with Mr. Rosati. Insulting Mr. Heyman about his "tweed" just goes to show me that for you, this issue is somehow intertwined with class. In reality, that's just way too EASY and only serves to highlight your own insecurities.
I can't tell you how many people I've seen without any gear engaging in this kind of fishing simply to feed their families. Underlying issue: lack of education regarding the risks this poses to the environment.
It ultimately has nothing to do with class.
Seriously? Engaging in this type of fishing to feed their families? So you guys are going to go "educate" someone who is pulling a fish off of gravel so their kids can eat dinner that night? Wow, how decent of you. I don't like seeing guys on the beds either, but my feeling is if someone is truly fishing gravel so their family can eat, more power to them. Now, the other philanthropists are waiting for you in the clubhouse, go sip your single malt you jackass.
No one's mentioned fishing for nesting largemouth...not quite a steelhead but this perhaps is much more common..
Are any of you people deer hunters? If you hunted at all during the months of October-November, you shouldn't be telling anyone about how lame you think it is to try to catch a spawning fish. At least the fish get released.
the only reason steelhead and lake run trout enter the river is to spawn.
I do not endorse or condone fishing the gravel - I fish the deeps on the swing,
However, fishing is a blood sport, and if you truly love this species, do not fish for it at all. Everyone has to learn and start somewhere.
Its the same situation with the geek at the music store - he'll always know more than you and be cooler than you.